Same old story as Oxford United dominate, but pick up nothing (From Banbury Cake)

We need a fox in the box striker and fast... Our lack of goals is criminal, if we dont put away our chances its back to the good old BSP. OUFC

Time for you to go Mr Wilder. If it's the same old story then you are clearly out of ideas.
Thanks for Wembley and one of the best days I've ever had in my 25 years as an OUFC fan but you should leave while you still have some respect left from our great set of fans.

Old boy Martin Grey is doing a good job at Darlington whats the odds on him being the next Oxford manager

Our four BEST players were out on Saturday.
1. Our best goal scorer.
2.The best Midfielder & Penalty taker.
3.The old Head @ Centre Half.
4.Our MAIN keeper.

That is bound to make a difference. At least I hope that was the main reason.
Our Chairman does NOT feel he wants to invest in some better players!!! Then we can expect much of the same.Let's see if CW can do anything with his tactics?

It si a sad reflection of a once proud club. Teams did not like to come play us when we were @ t"MANOR".

Oh well, we can only hope for some miracles.

When we play 4-3-3 or its close relative 4-1-2-3 we struggle to score goals.
Wilder found some success playing 4-4-2 but he doesn't think that is good enough to put himself in the shop window so he has returned to his bad old ways.
Wilder is already looking ahead to his next club. Let him go now and he concentrate all his time on that.

Same old excuses. I thought it was two very poor teams on show. I would hardly class OUFC as dominating.

Its wilder poor players and coaching methods that are to blame, why else are we so impotent in the final third?

We could go and sign Van Persie & Hernandez, but we still wouldn't find the back of the net with any great regularity. It isn't the players' fault, it is the coaching they are receiving (or rather lack of it) and the tactics employed. Where is the specialist forward coach? Apparently it is Wilder doing the job - a man who scored 14 goals in over 400 League appearances.

At times on Saturday we would be on the ball getting into good wide positions but there would be 1 yellow shirt in the box being marked by 3 Rovers players. This really restricts the options of the person who is crossing the ball.

We have invested heavily in sports science this year and lead the way in Leagues One and Two. Big fricking deal, the money invested in this all-singing and all dancing fitness regime would have been put to far better use by getting someone who knows how to find the back of the net in to teach our forwards how to do it. What's John Aldridge up to these days? I would wager getting him down for a couple of days a week would be a far more prudent investment that would have tangible and obvious benefits.

Time to get real. We aren't going to make the play offs this year. We aren't going to get relegated. We will make 50 odd points and that will be enough for a mid table finish. Our recent form indicates that we wont go on a run of 16 games and win ten of them, which is what we need to get somewhere near the playoffs (72 pts was enough last year). How can we expect that when our team is unable to put the ball in the back of the net? Above all, it is our lack of goals that is killing us. Football is full of games where the "best" team didn't win. But facts are facts, and teams very rarely change their fortunes from one extreme to another. Man City have more chance of winning the premiership than we have of making the playoffs, and who really expects Man Utd to slip up to that extent.

Actually, at this level, if we signed Van Persie and Hernandez they WOULD find the back of the net on a regular basis. Their ability is such that as long as we got it to them in the final third, they would guarantee us 2 to 3 goals a a game. Their ability is light years ahead of league two standards. But I would agree that the tactics we are employing clearly aren't working, and the John Aldridge idea? Bang on.

Manor Born has it spot on - all the Oxford players are on the wings with nobody in the middle, how can you hope to score when your main hope of scoring is chasing the full back down, the one time Constable did get the ball in the middle he nearly scored, but that was one opportunity in 90 minutes, even the best players don't convert every chance.

Even by 4th div standards, Constable is far from a natural finisher . Tommy Mooney was - we need a latter day Mooney . Constable generally works very hard (and so he should). 442 - simple isn't it CW ! Coaching a 25 - 30 year old 4th div striker how to score - are you being serious? They either know how to score at that level or they don't - they won't have forgotten !!

The same old story is Wilder's regurgitated cliches - same rubbish spouted for last 3 years and same patter too - win a few loose far more stop scoring goals and keep signing players not good enough for conference.

After so many years supporting the club and travelling away I've given up watching. Wilder's idea of progress is to stick with Plan A and hope it works out - He's like a very poor Peter Reid and he needs to go.

Where is my old pal BYS? - I bet he is glad that I didn't accept his offer of a bet - COYY

oldun wrote:
Even by 4th div standards, Constable is far from a natural finisher . Tommy Mooney was - we need a latter day Mooney . Constable generally works very hard (and so he should). 442 - simple isn't it CW ! Coaching a 25 - 30 year old 4th div striker how to score - are you being serious? They either know how to score at that level or they don't - they won't have forgotten !!

You'll be surprised what a difference good coaching can do. If you are lucky you will get a natural finisher - someone who instinctively knows how to put the ball in the back of net and where to be in order to do so - these are few and far between though - Aldridge (both John and Martin) are good examples of this.

However the majority of forwards will only flourish if they have someone who can teach them where to be, how to get there and how to make life more difficult for your opponents. Even 25-30 year old fourth division strikers can learn a thing or two and be more efficient with the benefit of good specialist coaching.

Manor Born wrote:

oldun wrote:
Even by 4th div standards, Constable is far from a natural finisher . Tommy Mooney was - we need a latter day Mooney . Constable generally works very hard (and so he should). 442 - simple isn't it CW ! Coaching a 25 - 30 year old 4th div striker how to score - are you being serious? They either know how to score at that level or they don't - they won't have forgotten !!

You'll be surprised what a difference good coaching can do. If you are lucky you will get a natural finisher - someone who instinctively knows how to put the ball in the back of net and where to be in order to do so - these are few and far between though - Aldridge (both John and Martin) are good examples of this.

However the majority of forwards will only flourish if they have someone who can teach them where to be, how to get there and how to make life more difficult for your opponents. Even 25-30 year old fourth division strikers can learn a thing or two and be more efficient with the benefit of good specialist coaching.

Can't do any harm - but not convinced of its likely value for money . I certainly never played at that level - I even played for a team which once lost narrowly to Chinnor - and no doubt I missed a few easy chances

oldun wrote:
Even by 4th div standards, Constable is far from a natural finisher . Tommy Mooney was - we need a latter day Mooney . Constable generally works very hard (and so he should). 442 - simple isn't it CW ! Coaching a 25 - 30 year old 4th div striker how to score - are you being serious? They either know how to score at that level or they don't - they won't have forgotten !!

Hey Oldun,
What we need is another Hugh Curren, remember when he came tothe Manor,
good old days, we should never have left that ground for the Kassam curse,
or cursed Kassam

A fourth division Hughie Curran - a man we signed (the first time) a few months after he had scored in the UEFA Cup Final and who about 15 months before he signed for us had scored against England before a 100,000 crowd which included this bore!! Foley, Graham Atkinson (for years a midfielder), Foyle ,Durnin etc would have in their mid 20s scored 25 plus a season in the 4th division . Curran , like Windass, John Aldridge and Dean Saunders was a different class from them - though Graham was a very good midfielder - easily Championship class . Happy days - lucky me!

The Stats show the game was pretty even 52% possesion for OU - and really should be 60% + at home. Fewer shots on target - 3 aginst 5 for BR! I think Wilder needs to change his rose tinted glasses

foxvox wrote:
Manor Born has it spot on - all the Oxford players are on the wings with nobody in the middle, how can you hope to score when your main hope of scoring is chasing the full back down, the one time Constable did get the ball in the middle he nearly scored, but that was one opportunity in 90 minutes, even the best players don't convert every chance.

Foxvox, Manor Born and Oldun are all so very right, the problem really is one that needs solving and pronto, why is Constable so often wide? I am told he thinks its his best position but surely he is selected as a striker and when he gets a service that's half decent he (as he has proven) does find the net occasionally. He and Craddock are in my opinion our best hope of goals but need better service and a boost in confidence, at this level both are capable, yes they won't get two or three a game each but are capable of getting two or three between them, maybe Wilders forward coaching tactics have blunted that capability. Another worry now is that the defence look susceptible every time the other team attack there is panic, Wright and Batt in particular don't like one on one or too much pressure, both are likely to get booked or sent off every time they get in that situation. While I think it's time for Wilder to admit defeat and go I also think its time for the coaching staff to have a good long look at themselves and put up or shut up.

Manor Born wrote:

oldun wrote:
Even by 4th div standards, Constable is far from a natural finisher . Tommy Mooney was - we need a latter day Mooney . Constable generally works very hard (and so he should). 442 - simple isn't it CW ! Coaching a 25 - 30 year old 4th div striker how to score - are you being serious? They either know how to score at that level or they don't - they won't have forgotten !!

You'll be surprised what a difference good coaching can do. If you are lucky you will get a natural finisher - someone who instinctively knows how to put the ball in the back of net and where to be in order to do so - these are few and far between though - Aldridge (both John and Martin) are good examples of this.

However the majority of forwards will only flourish if they have someone who can teach them where to be, how to get there and how to make life more difficult for your opponents. Even 25-30 year old fourth division strikers can learn a thing or two and be more efficient with the benefit of good specialist coaching.

But not by being coached by a former midfielder, they would benefit by bringing in a proper forward coach or even just an ex player who played in their position and scored often, it's what they need. Come on Mr Lenaghan, a couple of days a week for the rest of the season might just make a huge difference.

Got a bad feeling about the Oxford v Fleetwood game, got a feeling Fleetwood are going to do the double , hope I am wrong,Oxford 1 Fleetwood 2.
just shows how much confidence have in the team.

I really do not know which is worse, watching Wilders team during the match or listening to his cringeworthy post match interviews.

This man is well and truly out of his depth at this level. We deserve better.

How he has managed to survive this long goodness only knows.

Why this obsession with tactics and coaching? Good players can play within any system, average players can sometimes play in any system. Bad players struggle in any system. Good forwards know how, where and when to make their runs. There are underlying problems within the club (being bled dry by the stadium owner the biggest one) that would give any manager headaches. A new manager might have more success, but I go back over the last twelve years when there was Mark Wright, Graham Rix, Ramon Diaz, Brian Talbot, Jim Smith, Darren Patterson, Denis Smith, Joe Kinnear and David Kemp. There were three internationals in that lot, none of them lasted six months. Their qualifications appeared perfect to do well, yet they all blew it in different ways. A new manager is an absolute lottery and for this reason, I always preach caution, stability is vital. Better the devil you know!

winger whitley wrote:
Why this obsession with tactics and coaching? Good players can play within any system, average players can sometimes play in any system. Bad players struggle in any system. Good forwards know how, where and when to make their runs. There are underlying problems within the club (being bled dry by the stadium owner the biggest one) that would give any manager headaches. A new manager might have more success, but I go back over the last twelve years when there was Mark Wright, Graham Rix, Ramon Diaz, Brian Talbot, Jim Smith, Darren Patterson, Denis Smith, Joe Kinnear and David Kemp. There were three internationals in that lot, none of them lasted six months. Their qualifications appeared perfect to do well, yet they all blew it in different ways. A new manager is an absolute lottery and for this reason, I always preach caution, stability is vital. Better the devil you know!

Do you actually go and watch OUFC play, I mean regularly stand (sit) and watch what goes on, on the pitch and on the side line and you'll see the reason why tactics and coaching are absolutely essential at any level but most of all in the lower leagues.
The players haven't a clue what to do on the field, and you could argue that professionals should know but these are people who have it instilled in them at an early age to follow the direction of the Manager; who in this instance just stands and offers little in the way of support or communication.
We cannot afford the biggest and best players, however with a manager who has a sound understanding of the fundamentals of tactics and coaching we could turn average league player or more importantly determined young players into a winning team.
At the moment the player look to Wilder and he just shrugs and sits on the bench.

Well Ayelsbury Ox, I watch the games, I guess I've not seen them as often as you, but I've seen them a half a dozen times. What even you can't disagree with is that we miss chances. With the greatest of respect, even a cross between Alex Ferguson and Jose Marinio would admit that you can't coach players in front of goal. You fill average players minds with too much and they don't absorb it. What is clearly lacking is a real leader on the pitch, that might help.
What about the ten previous managers names that I list, could you give any guarantee that a new manager wouldn't stuff up like they all did. Answers on a post card please. (I should exclude Jim Smith fro that list, it was a spell too far for the old boy)

winger whitley wrote:
Well Ayelsbury Ox, I watch the games, I guess I've not seen them as often as you, but I've seen them a half a dozen times. What even you can't disagree with is that we miss chances. With the greatest of respect, even a cross between Alex Ferguson and Jose Marinio would admit that you can't coach players in front of goal. You fill average players minds with too much and they don't absorb it. What is clearly lacking is a real leader on the pitch, that might help.
What about the ten previous managers names that I list, could you give any guarantee that a new manager wouldn't stuff up like they all did. Answers on a post card please. (I should exclude Jim Smith fro that list, it was a spell too far for the old boy)

Stability? 4 years of Wilder isn't enough for you? I don't dispute your view on previous managers but will challenge your idea that keeping Wilder is the way forward. He's lost the plot and his post match comments are as embarrassing as ever. Wilder just isn't capable of reaching a level of consistency that can move us forwards. He keeps making the same mistakes and his record of signing decent players is woeful and he lets go of ones that could easily do a better job under a more savvy manager.

There are plenty of new managers of average teams who hit the ground running -look at Bristol Rovers for example. Wilder has his slippers on his eyes closed and his fingers crossed. He needs to go.

adlibber wrote:

winger whitley wrote:
Well Ayelsbury Ox, I watch the games, I guess I've not seen them as often as you, but I've seen them a half a dozen times. What even you can't disagree with is that we miss chances. With the greatest of respect, even a cross between Alex Ferguson and Jose Marinio would admit that you can't coach players in front of goal. You fill average players minds with too much and they don't absorb it. What is clearly lacking is a real leader on the pitch, that might help.
What about the ten previous managers names that I list, could you give any guarantee that a new manager wouldn't stuff up like they all did. Answers on a post card please. (I should exclude Jim Smith fro that list, it was a spell too far for the old boy)

Stability? 4 years of Wilder isn't enough for you? I don't dispute your view on previous managers but will challenge your idea that keeping Wilder is the way forward. He's lost the plot and his post match comments are as embarrassing as ever. Wilder just isn't capable of reaching a level of consistency that can move us forwards. He keeps making the same mistakes and his record of signing decent players is woeful and he lets go of ones that could easily do a better job under a more savvy manager.

There are plenty of new managers of average teams who hit the ground running -look at Bristol Rovers for example. Wilder has his slippers on his eyes closed and his fingers crossed. He needs to go.

Yep - he has had a great chance here - managers must know the score when they take a job - 4 years is a long time. He must know that he has not met expectations (third place in Conference) - we are worse than we were two years ago. Many many many bad signings - often poor tactics - poor motivation . If we go up (please!!!!) - then we will need to massively strengthen in order to avoid immediate relegation - the return of the injured ones will not be enough.

winger whitley wrote:
Well Ayelsbury Ox, I watch the games, I guess I've not seen them as often as you, but I've seen them a half a dozen times. What even you can't disagree with is that we miss chances. With the greatest of respect, even a cross between Alex Ferguson and Jose Marinio would admit that you can't coach players in front of goal. You fill average players minds with too much and they don't absorb it. What is clearly lacking is a real leader on the pitch, that might help. What about the ten previous managers names that I list, could you give any guarantee that a new manager wouldn't stuff up like they all did. Answers on a post card please. (I should exclude Jim Smith fro that list, it was a spell too far for the old boy)

I agree with you for the most part, however and this is key in the (ever growing) anti Wilder debate, he doesn't coach players in scoring goals. He has openly admitted that he just teaches the strikers the opposite of what he teaches the defenders. I agree you can't fill a players head up with too many ideas, and that is exactly why he is the wrong man for the job - he changes formation, positions and personnel so many times that nobody has a clue what to do. He will argue a necessity with the (groan) injury crisis but how many times do we have to see a side with no shape at all take to the field before he admits he's come as far as he can?
There are no guarantees with any new manager but I would get excited by one who came with a coaching and work ethic, was willing to utilise our young players and played the first teamers to their strengths and not simply tried to fit a square peg into a round hole because a position needs filling. Also one who was proactive in scouting players and brought in those he wanted rather than those who were available.

AylesburyOx wrote:

winger whitley wrote:
Well Ayelsbury Ox, I watch the games, I guess I've not seen them as often as you, but I've seen them a half a dozen times. What even you can't disagree with is that we miss chances. With the greatest of respect, even a cross between Alex Ferguson and Jose Marinio would admit that you can't coach players in front of goal. You fill average players minds with too much and they don't absorb it. What is clearly lacking is a real leader on the pitch, that might help. What about the ten previous managers names that I list, could you give any guarantee that a new manager wouldn't stuff up like they all did. Answers on a post card please. (I should exclude Jim Smith fro that list, it was a spell too far for the old boy)

I agree with you for the most part, however and this is key in the (ever growing) anti Wilder debate, he doesn't coach players in scoring goals. He has openly admitted that he just teaches the strikers the opposite of what he teaches the defenders. I agree you can't fill a players head up with too many ideas, and that is exactly why he is the wrong man for the job - he changes formation, positions and personnel so many times that nobody has a clue what to do. He will argue a necessity with the (groan) injury crisis but how many times do we have to see a side with no shape at all take to the field before he admits he's come as far as he can?
There are no guarantees with any new manager but I would get excited by one who came with a coaching and work ethic, was willing to utilise our young players and played the first teamers to their strengths and not simply tried to fit a square peg into a round hole because a position needs filling. Also one who was proactive in scouting players and brought in those he wanted rather than those who were available.

Hear! Hear!! Hear!!!

Re: Wilder's Injury crisis. It is of his own making.

He signed the players knowing their injury history. It was revealled at the Fans Forum that many of them didn't even have a medical when they signed - that should be a fundamental basic - all players should have a thorough examination before they are allowed anywhere near the club.

Players like Pitman have spent more time on the treatment table than on the pitch. When he signed, we were told by Wycombe fans that we'd be lucky to get even 10 games a season out of him. We put it down to sour grapes they had lost one of their more skillful players to us. Looks like they were right.

winger whitley the list of managers you gave us were all selected by a man who knew nothing about football. We all knew that Rix, Talbot, Kemp etc would be unmitigated disasters when they were announced. The only manager to be selected after a proper interview process was Wilder and he achieved the initial goal of getting us out of the Conference and we thank him for that. Unfortunately he has shown he is incapable of taking us up to the next level.

You say changing the manager is not the answer, but look at Crewe last season, Bristol Rovers, Wycombe, Barnet have all changed their managers this season and all three are now in better form than we are and pulling away from the bottom two. We seem to be sinking straight for it. We're 8 points off the play-offs, we're 9 points off the bottom two. We are just as likely (if not more so) to be in a relegation dogfight come the middle of next month.

Manor Born wrote:
Re: Wilder's Injury crisis. It is of his own making.

He signed the players knowing their injury history. It was revealled at the Fans Forum that many of them didn't even have a medical when they signed - that should be a fundamental basic - all players should have a thorough examination before they are allowed anywhere near the club.

Players like Pitman have spent more time on the treatment table than on the pitch. When he signed, we were told by Wycombe fans that we'd be lucky to get even 10 games a season out of him. We put it down to sour grapes they had lost one of their more skillful players to us. Looks like they were right.

winger whitley the list of managers you gave us were all selected by a man who knew nothing about football. We all knew that Rix, Talbot, Kemp etc would be unmitigated disasters when they were announced. The only manager to be selected after a proper interview process was Wilder and he achieved the initial goal of getting us out of the Conference and we thank him for that. Unfortunately he has shown he is incapable of taking us up to the next level.

You say changing the manager is not the answer, but look at Crewe last season, Bristol Rovers, Wycombe, Barnet have all changed their managers this season and all three are now in better form than we are and pulling away from the bottom two. We seem to be sinking straight for it. We're 8 points off the play-offs, we're 9 points off the bottom two. We are just as likely (if not more so) to be in a relegation dogfight come the middle of next month.

Top post MB