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Horse and carriage plan for city streets

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TOURISTS could be trotting around the streets of Oxford by horse and carriage, if a fresh bid to reintroduce the nostalgic form of transport is successful.

If the application is approved, visitors would be able to travel by carriage along the High Street, Broad Street and other parts of the city centre.

Horse-drawn carriages have not operated on a significant scale in the city since before the Second World war. They have proved hugely popular, however, in cities as diverse as New York, Bruges, Dublin, Vienna, Prague and Marrakesh.

Oxford City Council is now gauging opinion on what could prove to be a popular new tourist attraction, with a public consultation until July 31.

Jo Butler, tourism manager for Visit Oxfordshire, said: “We would encourage any business that enhances the visitor experience in the city, makes Oxford stand out from other places, and helps make Oxford unique.

“The fact a local business is behind this means it is something we would particularly like to encourage.”

But some businesses have already expressed fears that horses could lead to traffic jams, with congestion stretching back to East Oxford, while animal rights campaigners claim the public and horses would be put at risk.

Jeremy Mogford, chairman of the High Street Association, said he had not heard about the consultation, which began 10 days ago.

He said: “It is difficult to argue with the ecological side of it. But I think the carriages could create more congestion.”

The application has been submitted by Kevin Merry Carriages, which has operated a horse carriage business in Forest Hill for more than 10 years, providing transport to weddings, funerals and balls.

The company said it hoped to operate a service in Oxford initially on Sundays from May through to September.

But, if it proves a hit with visitors, the company says the service could be extended to Saturdays, or even throughout the week.

The half-hour journey would start from Broad Street and include Parks Road, Longwall Street, Magdalen Bridge and High Street.

In its submission to the council, the company said: “We believe there is the opportunity in Oxford to provide tourists and members of the public with a similar, stylish, environmentally-friendly Oxford experience.

“We recognise that having large animals in a city centre with many pedestrians, will inevitably lead to health and safety concerns.

“Friesian horses are, by nature, compliant creatures and have been bred for over 300 years specifically to pull carriages. Kevin’s horses have been under his guidance and instruction for many years.”

The company said it had not yet decided how many carriages would operate, but said horses were capable of managing four consecutive routes.

It pledged to ensure that manure would be collected between rides.

Among the scheme’s opponents are Elizabeth Mills, of East Oxford’s Divinity Road Area Residents’ Association, who described the proposal as ludicrous. She added: “Having horses standing on The Broad will attract flies and cause unpleasant smells.

“The average speed of a horse drawn vehicle is 7mph, and they would use the same route as the tour buses.

“This is going to cause tailbacks of traffic right down Cowley and Iffley Roads.”

A similar proposal was rejected by the city council 10 years ago, with the animal rights group Animal Aid opposing an application from Hook Norton-based Oxford Shires. There were 1,200 objections.

Animal Aid director, Andrew Tyler, said: “We presented the council with a substantial dossier demonstrating that such a scheme comes with very severe animal welfare problems and a significant risk to public safety.

“That is why London, Paris, Toronto and Beijing have banned carriages.”

The council’s general purposes licensing committee has given support in principle to the licensing of horse drawn carriages, with officers satisfied with welfare measures. “to ensure the welfare of the horses.”

Comments(15)

slygirl says...
2:33pm Thu 14 Jul 11

I agree there are many potential problems with this idea but wouldn't it be lovely to horse & carriages in Broad st?
Ms Mills how ridiculous to say 'smells and flies' !! what about car fumes etc?
would they offend you that much?

Lord Peter Macvay says...
4:58pm Thu 14 Jul 11

In its submission to the council, the company said: “We believe there is the opportunity in Oxford to provide tourists and members of the public with a similar, stylish, environmentally-frie
ndly Oxford experience..

I don't see anything environmentally-frie
ndly about miles of queuing traffic belching out fumes. In New York they tour Central Park, so the perfect location in Oxford would be The University Parks. (I'd better lie down, that was a constructive comment)

smmmmmm says...
9:17pm Sat 16 Jul 11

While so many cities are doing away with this CRUEL trade Oxfrod wants to go in time. Horses do NOT belong on the streets. The Carriage horses in NYC are badly treated and many die on the street EVERY year due to accidents or exhaustion. People will argue that Oxford will treat their horses humanely - I am sure they will want to - BUT this will NOT be the case. When MONEY and greed are there humaness goes out the door. Look at NYC, Greece, Spain, etc... Horses do NOT belong on city streets.

Porphyro says...
10:52pm Sat 16 Jul 11

Lord Peter Macvay wrote:
In its submission to the council, the company said: “We believe there is the opportunity in Oxford to provide tourists and members of the public with a similar, stylish, environmentally-frie

ndly Oxford experience..

I don't see anything environmentally-frie

ndly about miles of queuing traffic belching out fumes. In New York they tour Central Park, so the perfect location in Oxford would be The University Parks. (I'd better lie down, that was a constructive comment)
Bravo, my lord! Both constructive AND sensible!

Rina Deych says...
12:20am Sun 17 Jul 11

The carriage horse industry is exploitative and cruel. Here in NYC, we are trying to ban the carriage horse industry and rescue the horses to sanctuaries, where they can live out their lives in dignity (instead of suffering in unyielding traffic, in all temperature extremes, with inadequate rest and water, sometime dropping dead of illness or exhaustion, or, if they are "lucky" enough to survive, be "retired" to the slaughterhouse as their reward for a lifetime of work for humans). Shame on our species that we now want to go backward and bring back a relic of the past that has no place in this hectic, modern world.

Elizabeth-NYC says...
1:19am Sun 17 Jul 11

All around the world, horse advocates are pressuring the legislators in cities that have horse-drawn carriages to abolish it. Oxford Legislators: You will see this was a big mistake when the roads get ripped up because of the carriage wheels; when the urine permeates the asphalt and becomes so pungent, it affects nearby businesses; when people who are opposed to horse-drawn carriages because it is inhumane begin to pressure the City Council to end it; when protests happen in your community; when tourists will not walk in the area (this affects existing businesses) because they do not want to see the horses; But mostly – because as prey animals, horses can easily spook and become unwitting weapons - they can cause injury and death to themselves and pedestrians. Is the insurance high enough to cover the lawsuits? All of this is happening in NYC. Is this what you want?

www.banhdc.org
www.horseswithoutcar
riages.org

BHDCROME says...
8:19am Sun 17 Jul 11

Please, Oxford, do not inttroduce these carriages. they are dangerous for both horses and humans, and not to mention they are cruel. Why should the noble horses have to pull people around all day? Use electric vintage cars or introduce the Segway, but PLEASE, leave the horses alone. Cities like Beijing, Toronto, Paris and Tel Aviv have banned them, who would you move in the opposite direction? Many groups worldide are working towards a ban of this industry.

Lord Peter Macvay says...
7:56pm Sun 17 Jul 11

Most of the citys mentioned with horse drawn carriages have a proliferation of lap-dancing clubs, and large areas where tourists can procure young ladies for a night of pleasure. If we are going to have the first form of leisure for tourists, can we please have the second as well. P.S. These horse drawn carriages will need a Hackney Licence to ply for hire on the streets of Oxford. A Hackney Licence cannot be issued to ANY vehicle that is NOT Purpose Built and fully Wheelchair accessible, (which horse drawn carriages are not) so for the council to Licence them will cause massive problems for them over the issue of Hackney (Black Cab) Licences. So don't expect it to happen soon. Rickshaws were licenced as Private Hire Vehicles in Oxford a few years back, but abused their position by acting as Hackney Carriages and were soon stopped, another reason to object, there are many legal reasons why this will not happen.

Be Reasonable says...
8:09pm Sun 17 Jul 11

If the city approves this ill-advised plan, get ready for some ugly reality. Animals who are exploited for greed are NOT well-treated, as you will find. Business owners will complain about all manner of "nuisances," including urine and horse droppings. Manure management with the keeping of horses is no insignificant matter. And apparently those in city government have no concern for the public safety of locals and visitors. Horses spook easily, and the consequences often are grave. Do you not remember that less than a month ago, a horse spooked in Bury St. Edmunds, killing a woman and injuring 7 others? One witness told the Mail that the mortally injured woman "looked like a rag doll--the horse, then the cart, hit her at full speed. It was horrendous."

I cannot believe this plan is being considered. This plan is shameful. Then again, humans seem to be going backward in terms of critical thinking and compassion.

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2005850/Nowton-Park-
Country-Fair-Carole-
Bullett-killed-horse
-bolts.html

Claudia Rose, New York City says...
5:49am Mon 18 Jul 11

For the Oxford City Council to even consider horse-drawn carriages does not make a progressive council.
It may only seem popular here in NYC, but when tourists learn the truth of the hard lives the horses endure being pushed to exhaustion everyday, they are against this type of animal entertainment business.

I see the carriage horses going up congested streets in the morning and remain all day with the 500 lb carriages upon their backs being pushed to the limit for profit.

Jo Butler, tourism manager for Visit Oxfordshire, said: “We would encourage any business that enhances the visitor experience in the city, makes Oxford stand out from other places, and helps make Oxford unique.

Jo Butler should know that "Oxford will stand out" as another city that exploits animals and is not concerned about public safety.
What will make Oxford standout is to be compassionate and environmental by using antique electric cars instead.

Lucy Thompson says...
2:02pm Mon 18 Jul 11

It is disgraceful for Oxford city council to consider this appalling proposal. These sensitive, social, sentient beings do not deserve to lug around heavy carriages up and down roads full of exhaust fumes and noisy cars just to pander to some people's sentimental ideas of the 19th century.

Even if it does 'only' happen on a Sunday and even if these horses are not overworked to the point of exhaustion, ill health and injury, even if they are not sent to the slaughter house once their usefulness is outlived (ie no longer profitable) the point is why can't we just leave them to live out their natural lives in peace and on pasture without interfering with them and using them for our profit and pleasure?

They have done us no harm, the least we can do is return the favour.

jghdvm says...
5:10pm Mon 18 Jul 11

As a New York City veterinarian who has seen the inhumane treatment and unacceptable conditions that the carriage horses are forced to endure day after day, and with the laws designed to protect them virtually ignored by the ASPCA police and other government officials, I hope the Oxford city council reconsiders their plan to re-introduce carriage horses to their beautiful city. This article mentions such diverse cities as NY, Bruges, and Marrakesh. One only needs to take one look at the malnourished, abused horses in Marrakesh for a person with any in intelligence and compassion to realize the days of the carriage horses should be a thing of the past.
John G. Hynes, DVM
USDA Accredited Veterinarian
www.nycvet.org

snert says...
2:00pm Thu 21 Jul 11

"...nostalgic form of transport..."

erm, so is walking and walking is easier, cheaper, less likely to cause litigation, more environmentally friendly, less likely to be the cause of urine and droppings (except on a Saturday night on the Cowley Road) and ultimately, free!

What an ill-thought out idea. Sounds like a marketeer got involved there and everyone in that meeting thought they'd jump on the bandwagon.

Lord Peter Macvey says...
7:24pm Thu 28 Jul 11

Typical of a YANK. You missed all of the salient points in this argument. Nobody in England could give a sh!t about the welfare of these glue machines, only about the legal argument of licensing them. That is where you need to start. In England (like
Europe) we EAT animals.

oxfordborn says...
1:52pm Wed 10 Aug 11

Good Lord, The New York horse huggers have got their teeth into this one for some reason. To them I say, stick to sorting out your own problems and keep your noses out of hours. Get your enforcement people to do their job, don't tell us what we should or should not have on our streets. The two places and practices are not like for like. NY has a very different climate to Oxford for a start.
Incidentally, tourist buses have long been holding up other traffic whilst they belch out their fumes (they seemed to use the oldest least eco friendly ones when I last saw them)
Maybe we should forget horses and get a few huskies in harness instead !

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