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SNOW: 'Severe weather has cost Oxford £10m so far....'

9:00am Wednesday 22nd December 2010 in News By Chris Walker

Cars queue on the A34 at the weekend Cars queue on the A34 at the weekend

BUSINESS leaders estimate the snow has lost city firms about £10m as they demanded more is done to keep the county moving during cold snaps.

Oxford City Council drafted in a team of just 25 street cleaners to tackle Arctic weather conditions over the weekend, gritting the city’s main road network, ploughing arterial routes and clearing city centre footpaths.

Meanwhile, the Highways Agency laid 261 tonnes of salt on the A34 in Oxfordshire between Friday night and Monday morning.

However, those efforts were unable to stop drivers abandoning their vehicles on the A34 as snow built up on the carriageway causing long tailbacks.

Keith Slater, former president of Oxfordshire Chambers Council, which represents more than 500 businesses, estimated the snowfall could have cost businesses in the city centre more than £10m. He said: “It is the snow moving equipment thec county needs and the people to handle them.”

Meanwhile, a survey of county retailers and pubs showed takings were down between 40 and 80 per cent on Saturday.

Oxfordshire Town Chambers Network, which represents town chambers of commerce and shopping centres across the county, said the survey by showed hotels and restaurants lost between £1,000 and £2,500 in a single night due to bookings being cancelled.

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Network director Iain Nicholson said travel chaos caused by the coldest December since 1910 compounded the impact of January’s widespread snowfall on the local economy.

He said: “We have had two very serious weather events in the same year now, this time earlier than anyone expected. It clearly was not then or is not now a situation where Oxfordshire businesses can keep moving and operating.

“It is a discussion that everybody needs to have to see whether we should change our level of preparedness for snow and ice.”

Anthony Lloyd, who owns Fallowfields Country House Hotel at Kingston Bagpuize, said: “Whereas I absolutely understand customers are heeding the warnings to stay at home, the impact of this on local hospitality businesses is dire.

“We had cancellations for 60 customers on Saturday, 40 more on Sunday, and no guests or restaurant customers at all on Monday.”

Since the weekend 70 council staff have been working to reopen the city’s bus routes and clear snow from shopping precincts and car parks.

Ed Turner, board member for strategic planning, said: “Clearly, everyone involved needs to have a look at whether we need to do anything more or invest extra now we seem to be seeing patterns of extreme weather rather than one-off events.

“The council staff have worked really hard over the last few days.”

Highways Agency spokesman James Wright said: “We are well placed to deal with cold weather, but when the weather is truly exceptionally bad unfortunately some disruption is inevitable.”

cwalker@oxfordmail.co.uk

Comments(29)

PaulSte says...
9:08am Wed 22 Dec 10

Let's face it, every local council in the country could throw its entire budget at gritting and snowploughs and it would still be doomed never to be good enough for some. A sad proportion of people just get their kicks out of council, highways agency or government bashing. Facts and balance don't come in to it.
I now predict several further rants aimed at authorities in Oxfordshire. Simultaneously the armchair critics will be at it in every other part of the UK. Little of it will be reasoned or informed. Too much of it will be hysterical.

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Berty says...
9:54am Wed 22 Dec 10

Perhaps we need to prepare for snow, especially as it's winter, and plan to do stuff which is closer to home. I do think, however, that more roads would be cleared if local authorities let local people get on and do it instead of throwing the Elf and Safety book at them. When I was young it was quite normal for the farmers in Steventon to clear the roads with tractors and diggers. It was accepted that residents would clear a path through their own street and make pavements safe for the elderly. Now we have been disempowered and common sense thrown out of the window a mixture of apathy and laziness prevents the great British public from doing anything for themselves.

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Englishman says...
10:19am Wed 22 Dec 10

Take Witney for example. How many shops bothered to clear snow from their frontage and how many households bothered to do the same. There was a time when shops took pride and cleared pavements before they opened. Garage forecourts and supermarket car parks especially Sainsbury's in Witney are nothing short of a joke yet they still expect customers.

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the wizard says...
11:02am Wed 22 Dec 10

There seems to have been little long term planning historically to deal with these conditions due to the fact we have had mild winters for so long. We are guilty of having a false sense of security.
-
Now is not the time for knee jerk reactions, but for the government to reliquish the "health & safety" fiasco laws which limit peoples indulgence in doing more in a responsible manner. People have this "culture -thought" of being sued if somebody has an accident on an area of footpath or road which in good faith they have tried to clear. This needs to be dealt with and then many more people will engage in trying to do their bit. A bigger profile needs to be given in the press and on TV news on how the public can be best employed in doing their bit and the best way to go about it.
-
Councils now need to be more high profile in their methods and best use of their resources, indeed Mark Austin of ITN did a 30 minute slot from Finland last week on TV and it showed that once the initial investment has been made it becomes very cost effective in keeping todays nation mobile. His report showed that Helsinki Airport has never been closed due to snowfall, Heathrow please take note.
We need to accept that these problems will be ongoing and the investment by companies and the nation as a whole will provide a return worth having and paying for, its time for us to face up to this, stop whinging, devise a plan after looking at how others deal with this situation and get on with it, instead of just debating it. Action, not words, equipement not apathy, and a strong guidance in the direction to take, and kick this nonsensicle sueing culture back to where it belongs, in the bin. Positive action will bring about a positive result.

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Niko Bellic says...
11:40am Wed 22 Dec 10

I dont think anyone is overreacting to the councils in activity on this occasion. Compared with earlier in the year the response was pitiful.
.
We have had two very serious weather events in the same year now, this time earlier than anyone expected.
.
A rather widely forecast snowfall wasnt it?
.
If the report I saw the other day was even close to being accurate then we can expect this sort of weather to be far more regular.

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JanetJ says...
11:49am Wed 22 Dec 10

I have had to drive through oxfordshire to both northamptonshire and hampshire over the last few days and can only say that both northants and hampshire had done a much better job than oxfordshire in clearing the roads. it was very obvious where the county boundaries are

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PaulSte says...
1:07pm Wed 22 Dec 10

JanetJ wrote:
I have had to drive through oxfordshire to both northamptonshire and hampshire over the last few days and can only say that both northants and hampshire had done a much better job than oxfordshire in clearing the roads. it was very obvious where the county boundaries are
Same old, same old. No doubt some people in Northants are saying loudly that Oxfordshire has done a better job than their council. No doubt people in Norfolk say Suffolk has done a better job and vice-versa. The same line has been trotted out for decades.

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Scaramuccia says...
1:57pm Wed 22 Dec 10

PaulSte - have you ever been to the North of England ? Say West Yorkshire ? I think not sir otherwise you would know that there are serious deficiencies in the gritting / ploughing programme of Oxon. I also recommend, before making crass staments about never having enough money to solve a problem, you visit Southern Finland, places on similar latitudes to Scotland, and see what they get for their money. Of course you also find in Finland a culture that is happy generally to pay higher levels of income tax to fund adequate health, education and other local services. Maybe it is this that is wrong with our system, not just a moaning mentality as you seem to suggest. Maybe we have to accpet we pay more to get more. What a novel idea ?

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PaulSte says...
2:31pm Wed 22 Dec 10

Scaramuccia wrote:
PaulSte - have you ever been to the North of England ? Say West Yorkshire ? I think not sir otherwise you would know that there are serious deficiencies in the gritting / ploughing programme of Oxon. I also recommend, before making crass staments about never having enough money to solve a problem, you visit Southern Finland, places on similar latitudes to Scotland, and see what they get for their money. Of course you also find in Finland a culture that is happy generally to pay higher levels of income tax to fund adequate health, education and other local services. Maybe it is this that is wrong with our system, not just a moaning mentality as you seem to suggest. Maybe we have to accpet we pay more to get more. What a novel idea ?
I am originally from the north of England. Next question.

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Andrew:Oxford says...
4:42pm Wed 22 Dec 10

We need an alternative for Oxford City. . Generally speaking, priority is given to bus routes in a city. . So perhaps the ploughing/gritting should be sub-contracted to a "Newco" operated jointly by the Oxford Bus Company and Stagecoach with clearly defined service level agreements. .
First Stage would be the primary routes in and out of the city, followed by city bus route termini. Secondary Stage would be routes near health centres and shops, Final stage would be pavement clearance of snow around bus stops and 3 metres to either side. Retail outlets would be offered a retrospective % discount on their business rates if they clear snow from the width to 2 metres or to the pavement edge if closer or within 2 hours of the store opening or 2 hours of snow fall when during opening hours.

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Scaramuccia says...
6:35pm Wed 22 Dec 10

North of England is a big place - I specifically asked abnout west yorkshire and the pennine areas that get snow and know how tp deal with iot more effectively than Oxford.

Second question - have you looked up how Finland copes (its airportgets six FEET of snow and never closes -0 see BBC News web site) and third question would you be perpared to pay more tax for better services ?

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Peterr Mcvey says...
6:38pm Wed 22 Dec 10

I just do not understand why our council leaders have not gone on a Jolly to any of the countries that suffer far worse conditions than us, and just watch and learn how they keep everything going. Then they could come home and do the same here. It is one Jolly I would be happy to pay for.

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West Oxon Webwatcher says...
6:57pm Wed 22 Dec 10

All the above arguments were made after the very cold winter of 1962/63. Subsequently the Oxon County Council invested massively in snow clearing equipment, much of puchased with loan finance that had to be repaid over the future years.I know this was the case as I was emplyed by the county council as its highways accountant. As we know we had no recurrence of the 1962/63 winter to the same extremes and all this expensive equipment simply rusted away and was eventually scrapped after nigligible use. The question I would ask all these people is that if you wish the highway authority to be better prepared, what other county council expenditure would uyou be prepared to scrap bearing in mind that the county's finance resources will be lower in future and by making even more cuts elsewhere would be the only way to fiance the better preparedness that people are calling for.

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oafie says...
7:00pm Wed 22 Dec 10

The bad weather was hardly unprecendented bad weather...we knew it was on its way....we know Mr Highways Man you and others do not care....you would rather save your dosh...oohh lets think how much SODC have in reserve...surely enough to buy another couple of snow ploughs

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Scaramuccia says...
7:19pm Wed 22 Dec 10

West Oxon - can you not read the options I set out above - it does not have to be an either this or that situation. We can have it all as long as we pay more taxes for it. This is so short sighted. Someone has to pay for the country grinding to a halt. OK so we have lower taxers and less equipment than other countries at similar latitudes to us then what happens. The economy grinds to a halt and companies foot the bill. So what happens ? They lose revenue, they pay compensation, they lay off staff or reduced them to short time the comapny gets less profit (ergo less tax for HMRC) and the poor workers have less to spend in the shops when they get out to them. So in what way shape or form is this an affordable situation either. Climate change suggests such events as the current change in jet-stream pattern that warms us to levels we should not really expect so far north, are likely to increase. So lets pay up and not have all this nonsense. And with taxing the well off a bit more proportionately, we could have other good public services too. Or will we be writng on these pages again in February complaining of the gridlock and lack of service again ?

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jf says...
8:19pm Wed 22 Dec 10

the wizard wrote:
There seems to have been little long term planning historically to deal with these conditions due to the fact we have had mild winters for so long. We are guilty of having a false sense of security.
-
Now is not the time for knee jerk reactions, but for the government to reliquish the "health & safety" fiasco laws which limit peoples indulgence in doing more in a responsible manner. People have this "culture -thought" of being sued if somebody has an accident on an area of footpath or road which in good faith they have tried to clear. This needs to be dealt with and then many more people will engage in trying to do their bit. A bigger profile needs to be given in the press and on TV news on how the public can be best employed in doing their bit and the best way to go about it.
-
Councils now need to be more high profile in their methods and best use of their resources, indeed Mark Austin of ITN did a 30 minute slot from Finland last week on TV and it showed that once the initial investment has been made it becomes very cost effective in keeping todays nation mobile. His report showed that Helsinki Airport has never been closed due to snowfall, Heathrow please take note.
We need to accept that these problems will be ongoing and the investment by companies and the nation as a whole will provide a return worth having and paying for, its time for us to face up to this, stop whinging, devise a plan after looking at how others deal with this situation and get on with it, instead of just debating it. Action, not words, equipement not apathy, and a strong guidance in the direction to take, and kick this nonsensicle sueing culture back to where it belongs, in the bin. Positive action will bring about a positive result.
I totally agree Wizard! Good post!

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Berty says...
8:28pm Wed 22 Dec 10

Oh the weather outside is frightful,
But the fire is so delightful,
And since we've no place to go,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

It doesn't show signs of stopping,
And I've bought some corn for popping,
The lights are turned way down low,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

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Peterr Mcvey says...
8:32pm Wed 22 Dec 10

the wizard wrote:
There seems to have been little long term planning historically to deal with these conditions due to the fact we have had mild winters for so long. We are guilty of having a false sense of security.
-
Now is not the time for knee jerk reactions, but for the government to reliquish the "health & safety" fiasco laws which limit peoples indulgence in doing more in a responsible manner. People have this "culture -thought" of being sued if somebody has an accident on an area of footpath or road which in good faith they have tried to clear. This needs to be dealt with and then many more people will engage in trying to do their bit. A bigger profile needs to be given in the press and on TV news on how the public can be best employed in doing their bit and the best way to go about it.
-
Councils now need to be more high profile in their methods and best use of their resources, indeed Mark Austin of ITN did a 30 minute slot from Finland last week on TV and it showed that once the initial investment has been made it becomes very cost effective in keeping todays nation mobile. His report showed that Helsinki Airport has never been closed due to snowfall, Heathrow please take note.
We need to accept that these problems will be ongoing and the investment by companies and the nation as a whole will provide a return worth having and paying for, its time for us to face up to this, stop whinging, devise a plan after looking at how others deal with this situation and get on with it, instead of just debating it. Action, not words, equipement not apathy, and a strong guidance in the direction to take, and kick this nonsensicle sueing culture back to where it belongs, in the bin. Positive action will bring about a positive result.
Wizard it is nothing to do with Heathrow airport, but all to do with the Spanish Owners (B.A.A.) who want to make massive profits (£1.6 Billion last year) whilst taking the Mick out of us travellers. Could it be a coincidence that Gatwick coped far better over the last few days. The Spanish sold it to GIP for those of you who didn't know. Just look at the performance of B.A.A. as opposed to its competitors over this week.

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European says...
10:32pm Wed 22 Dec 10

I live in a side street and it is completely untouched for 5 days now - covered with deep snow, as are the pavements - slippery and dangerous, especially for older people.

We have heard proud reports about two snowploughs and a couple of dozen personnel for cleaning - what a joke for such a city!

Can anyone remember how many times the organization of traffic was changed in the High Street in the last 20 years? How could funds be found for that and for a few more snowploughs?

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Peterr Mcvey says...
10:45pm Wed 22 Dec 10

European wrote:
I live in a side street and it is completely untouched for 5 days now - covered with deep snow, as are the pavements - slippery and dangerous, especially for older people.

We have heard proud reports about two snowploughs and a couple of dozen personnel for cleaning - what a joke for such a city!

Can anyone remember how many times the organization of traffic was changed in the High Street in the last 20 years? How could funds be found for that and for a few more snowploughs?
Not to mention the relaying of cobbles by the station twice, before laying tarmac, the same goes for Carfax, and the bit of George St at the bottom of the Taxi Rank not even mentioning the £Millions wasted on the Cornmarket Fiasco. There is plenty of money flying about, but it only flies in the direction of the councils whims.

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EBTWO says...
10:52pm Wed 22 Dec 10

Fact is Finland gets meters of snow every year without fail. We don't. There is no point spending millions on equipment we will not use. What we should do is buy the equipment we then lease it to foreign countries, then fly it back on RAF freighters when we need it.

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Volterra says...
10:31am Thu 23 Dec 10

Scaramanga, may I trump your Finland example with Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong. Hardly living in the depths of social disorder and poverty are they? All three have an overall tax burden approximately one third of ours. All are far happier, safer and more prosperous societies.

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Scaramuccia says...
10:57am Thu 23 Dec 10

These countries are not at all comparable to UK or Finland in terms of the industry mix labour market fators, and a whole range of socio-cultural factors such as high levels of collectivism / low individualism etc (see Messrs Hofstede and Trompenaars). If you want to compare apples with pears fair go but if not shut the **** up Vulture. If thats the best you can do the neo-liberal argument is definitely on the wane. EBTWO - did you not read the points I made about true cost to the economy of the disruptions WITHOUT major investment. We will get more and more frequent severe weather incidents and need to plan strategically for them. Equipment like this is an INVESTMENT not an expense. Ever thought you couldn t afford to repair something then have to pay even more when it packs in completely ?

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Rubislaw says...
11:19am Thu 23 Dec 10

PaulSte: work for the council by any chance? Guilty about failure?

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Volterra says...
12:13pm Thu 23 Dec 10

High levels of collectivism stemming from the fact that everyone acknowledges their responsibility to pull their weight? Stemming from the fact they do not have a feckless, workshy, ungrateful underclass as we have? Are these the socio-cultural differences you refer to? Would the differing labour market attributes be a population willing to educate themselves and graft for a living instead of expecting to be subsidised for a life of watching Jeremy Kyle. Would their industry mix not be reflecting these labour force values which reflect wider societal values, i.e. everyone pulls their weight. To summarise, a country with a large class of scroungers necessitates higher levels of tax to pay for those scroungers. No sh*t Sherlock.

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yentiw says...
12:14pm Thu 23 Dec 10

PaulSte: If he does, it'll be sitting in the cushy overpaid areas!

It's all 'unprecedented' weather, isn't it? Always is! Will be the same next year. Pathetic.
I saw a snow plough (what was needed at the weekend and Monday) on Tues (after it was needed, and probably in response to resident's anger!). Yesterday Wed, main roads all cleared and wet.
This morning, black ice everywhere, cars and vehicles off, because they AGAIN failed to do their job!
Plus with so many fools on the road it was worse than the previous days. I knew it was black ice going through Curbridge (just flick your main beam on and you can see the sheen). Dopey woman behind (9am) up my back, so I flick on my fogs, but no, as I indicate to turn left she brakes and is sideways.
As she gains control (through luck), I see her vehicle is full of young children!
THIS IS WHY THE COUNCIL SHOULD GET OFF THEIR BACKSIDE (not the council workmen/women, they can only gdo their job when instructed to do so) and STOP TRYING TO SAVE THE PENNIES! That one woman, if she had totally lost control would cost FAR MORE! Get your priorities right. Ditch the CLR and put some money back in the kitty instead of squandering it.

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yentiw says...
12:35pm Thu 23 Dec 10

Volterra.
Nice rant. How many (numbers please) of 'underclass' scroungers do you think reside in the UK?

If you look at the proper statistics you'll see it's not as large as the Daily Wail would tell you. I agree, it's all wrong of course, but it's the system that's to blame. The scroungers don't implement the system.

However, you would be wise to cast your eye over the pathetic overpaid wallies at the other end of the scale and these are a far bigger part of this country's ills. Unintelligent, lacking common-sense, they abound at EVERY level in this country. They OUTNUMBER scroungers easily.

Mind you, I suppose you could really be correct, as these useless people (from a 'over' class - lol )are scroungers also in my book!

Take the example of the wally in charge of BAA. He hasn't stayed in one job for 2years - wonder why? Basically, he's hopeless imo. Heathrow is in chaos and he thinks the answer is to forego his 'bonus'. Oh dear, oh dear. Last year he earnt (was given!) a £million including his bonus.
THAT is ALSO what is wrong with this country, not just the scroungers.

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sparky123456 says...
2:24pm Thu 23 Dec 10

god you lot moan a lot. I'm right with PaulSte on this. How when you have a blizzard that causes a foot of snow in about 4 hours can you expect to clear. A hundred workers with 20 ploughs and 600 tonnes of grit wouldn't shift it, no sooner than they'd clear and grit 2 miles of road would the first mile be 3 inches deep again. The snow was well forecast, up to a week in advance in most cases. The best thing to do is let if fall then clear the following day. The public should make provisions to shop/stay local/have winter tyres/own a shovel, businesses should make provisions for people to work from home where possible. Scara your comments are pointless as usual, you can't compare scandinavia especially Finland with England, it may lie similarly to Scotland but they receive far more snow than us, for around 4-5 months of the year, their investment in Snow Clearing equipment is well founded. I bet if we spent £40m+ on staff, ploughs and grit you'd all moan that the council have wasted money on a phenomonom that occurs for around 30 days each year. Similarly the same arguement comes around each summer when we get our annual 20 day heatwave "why don't we have aircon on all public transport/why can't we work in shorts/why is there a hosepipe ban blah blah blah" because to reverse these problems we'd spend millions. Just learn to get on with it, buy some wellies, get a shovel and some dishwasher salt and sort it out yourself.

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Scaramuccia says...
2:56pm Thu 23 Dec 10

Sparky read my pioints above about the total cost to the economy (locan AND national (WHOEVER pays it is STILL a cost) but if we invest we do not have to lose the much needed GDP to the weather.

In Finland it regularly has a metre of snowfall overnight - NOTHING comes to a halt and yes their manpower and vehicles DO clear it all into mounds between roads and pavements. They even have a cutter to make pedestian access trough the mounds so pedestrians can cross the road as well as small clearers to do the same for pavements, laying and rolling gravel as temperatures are too low even for salt and grit to work. I was there for two weeks in Jan / Feb 1999 and saw it every night for five nights with my own eyes. Yentiw is quite right we have to invest.

As for the vulture man Yentiw - he will not listen to any sense about regulated capitalism and higher taxation for the greater good of the community, even when the numbers stack up, as he is a shamelessly unreconstructed neo-liberal and totally beyond redemption. He is locked in a DailyMailesque world where everyone from the lower social orders has to be a scrounger and is workshy - what he wont tell you is what would happen if we introduced the draconian measures he would advocate on benefits, for example how we would fund the extra police we would need to maintain law and order with an underclass without Jeremy Kyle as their opiate as they cannot pay for their electricity or maybe even rent. Nor will he say how much the additional prison places would cost to house those who as a last resort turn to petty and more serious crime to survive. He just has simplistic platituides of the far right and is not really worth consodering in such debates. In short a one trick pony with an outdated and discredited message.

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